| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
610
   |
Posted - 2013.09.26 08:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
AFAIK:
Logi = Logistics by definition: Logistics is the management of the flow of resources between the point of origin and the point of consumption in order to meet some requirements. In our case the flow of Shield\Armour|Structure ( ) and Capacitor to the target in order to keep there arse firmly in the fight.
Target Painters = Electronic Warfare
Want a TP? Drop a mid-slot module and fit one. They are slot assigned to fall in with choices and consequences. This idea, IMO, doesn't need to happen as the choice is already in place.
Or drop rep drones if you are carrying them for TP drones...
Choices are there already IG.
Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
610
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 09:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Darling Hassasin wrote:As I said in the OP pls try to comment on the precise merit demerit.
I did...and I don't think it has merit. Please try reading before "Reply Bashing".
If you want Electronic Warfare then bring an EW ship to the field or compromise on the Logistic fit and bring a hybrid without the bonus. It's all about choices and consequences and having an EW bonus on a Logistics ship doesn't fit with the class.
Sorry but that is obviously just my opinion on it and I'm sure others will have their own.
Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
611
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 11:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Darling Hassasin wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:Darling Hassasin wrote:As I said in the OP pls try to comment on the precise merit demerit. I did...and I don't think it has merit. Please try reading before "Reply Bashing". If you want Electronic Warfare then bring an EW ship to the field or compromise on the Logistic fit and bring a hybrid without the bonus. It's all about choices and consequences and having an EW bonus on a Logistics ship doesn't fit with the class. Sorry but that is obviously just my opinion on it and I'm sure others will have their own. Well technically we are not dicsussing an EW bonus but I take your point. It is certainly a departure from current norm for this class. Would you care to elaborate however on why you think this is a bad thing. This community is somehwta prejudiced against change to protect pvp balnce and they are right to be so to an extent. On the other hand this is the features and ideas discussion a part of the forums where it is helpful to discuss new ideas with as little prejudice as possible. Hence lets think about this, other than the fact that this looks like a dangerous change just because it is a change, can we identify the actual dangers? For example do you think Logis in combat are already OP and this would further increase their usefulness, even marginally, so it is a step in the wrong direction for this reason? This what I mean about merits and demerits.
I like your reply, you're right that this is F&I so let's look a little deeper under the hood and see if I have been a little too prejudice.
Darling Hassasin wrote: (a) its optimal is same as optimal+fall off of regular painter
(b) it applies a 5% speed reduction on target ship and
(c) only one can be fitted per vessel
+3 Locked Targets ability
The EW bonus that you would want to give is only restricted to one module (good with this) but it is far superior to a ship that is specialised in EW. A Golem for instance get's a hull bonus of 10% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per level to a max of +50% but still has to deal with Falloff and Optimal.
A Basilisk would now have standard TP signature bloom (skills aside) but would have a 90km Range (Falloff + Optimal). Along with that it would have a -max velocity bonus as well...far too OP for a logistics ship.
Now if Logi's got an extra Hi-Slot to accommodate then why do you need the +3 Locked Targets (Basilisk would be Total Locked Targets 13! That's only two shy of a full Watchlist) What's to stop this from being "abused\exploited" and just using it as a way to grab an extra +3 Locked Targets in say Incursion Fleets?
If it's restricted to 1 Hi-Slot then give it +0 Locked Targets as a bonus to make people really think about whether they want their LogiBro's using up that extra slot. Personally it should be a +1 Mid-Slot if anything as it's EW and fit's better.
Now I can't see this being adopted by many as the room for error is there in that you could hit reps on an enemy accidentally...not great as this could be a double whammy whereby you rep the enemy and possibly drop one of your own ships in the process.
I still believe that ships have a specialisation for a reason and that is down to the choices and consequences of EVE. Anyone can fit anything but to get the most from it you want a hull that has the bonus for it. Adding more bonuses to more hulls means less specialisation and more homogenisation which we all hate.
Stats taken from: Target Painter II Base Accuracy Falloff: 60 km Optimal Range: 30 km
I've used a Basilisk as I am a Basi Pilot and that's what I know along with the Golem.
Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
612
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 12:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Darling Hassasin wrote:Nice analysis. I did aim for a bit of free TPing at long range coming from the logis to help the missile users. I think one of the main reasons that we have not yet seen the Phoon and Raven doctrines that most predicted after the missile patch is exactly the need for TPs on the missile ship negating tank and / or utility. [Even more so in small gang warfare] Regarding the +3 targets the intent was to help the Logi to have both friendly and enemy ships locked but you are right that it could and up as an (unnecessary) buff to the straight up defencive use of the Logis. The things you present as problems are problems indeed... The reason I thought of a high sot was because the intended use was (inter alia) to have the Logi pilot activating an "offensive" mod. Lorewise its easy of course, you just call it Target Pipointing Laser (looks a bit like a mining laser or something  )... Also I chose the one extra dedicated highslot to eliminate any other effect on the current set ups (always a good idea to eliminate the effect of a new feature to the use of existing features and load outs.). Anyway I admit my concept needs improvement... but the problems remain (Logi not on mails and missile ships under used in pvp -for the last 6 years or so... arguably since 2003 bar the odd mOo cruise Kestrel lol-) and I d love it if we could come up with an idea to solve both.
Well this is F&I...it'll evolve with others input and glad I didn't completly balls up my analysis of your idea\design. I'm sure others who use different doctrines will post up but I can see what you were going for but Logistics on KM's is easily solvable bay adding an "Assisted By" Section to KM's.
Missiles...oh my woe as I switched early in my career to missiles from projectile weapons because Caldari ships really appealed in design and I love missiles but there are some tweaks but they are getting better. I'm just still glad to have launchers on my hull instead of firing missiles out of my arse 
Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
668
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 12:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:<- Logi pilot
OP, at the end of the day, if you're having to bribe your logi dudes with Kill mails to get them to fly logi, you need to invest in proper logi pilots. Logi isn't about Kill mails. It's about making an otherwise impossible situation not only possible, but likely.
Yes, it can be frustrating, flying logi ALL the time. But a GOOD logi pilot's value can't be measured in SP.
But trying to bribe them into doing the job, so to speak, doesn't get you good logi pilots....
I completely agree, it's a career path not a glory hunt. Also a Logi Pilot.
In short I think what Kenrailae was saying was "LogiBro's = BestBros = o/\o"
Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
670
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Darling Hassasin wrote:Kenrailae wrote:<- Logi pilot
OP, at the end of the day, if you're having to bribe your logi dudes with Kill mails to get them to fly logi, you need to invest in proper logi pilots. Logi isn't about Kill mails. It's about making an otherwise impossible situation not only possible, but likely.
Not sure what they get out of it but as you are a Logi pilot and I am not, I ll take your word for it. v0v
It's the rush of repping someone back from the brink and knowing you did a pro job...I don't bask in "Killboard Glory" but that's OK, it means I've done my job if we get the kill...not the points on some external website. Just my thoughts, I'm sure some LogiBros want to be on those killboards but changing the Logistics Class isn't the way to go about it IMO.
Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
| |
|